Reclaiming Connection: A Teen’s Mission for Healthier Social Media

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 00:03

Hello and welcome back to another episode of Meaning vs. Merit. I am so excited for today's interview with Sahil Mishra, a senior whom I met last year at the Common Sense Summit in San Francisco. Now we don't typically have teenagers on this show, but Sahil stood out to me because there was an excitement emanating from him when we spoke about some of his projects. He didn't seem to be driven by merit or acquiring as many accolades as possible.

Instead, he seemed to have passion projects and his inspiration was propelling him towards some incredible things. I am so excited for you to hear from him directly yourselves. First, I want to invite you to please take a minute to rate, review, and subscribe if you like our show. Now, let's turn to Sahil. Thank you so much for being on our show. Tell us a little bit about you, your journey. We would just love to get to know you.

Saahil Mishra (: 01:01

Absolutely. Thank you so much. It's such a privilege to be here talking with you. Yeah, my name is Sahil. He and pronouns. go to Lickwammering High School, which is a high school in South San Francisco, very centered around public purpose and social justice. And throughout my time in high school, I've really loved diving into a few different passion projects and especially the main one being founding an organization centered around social media and well-being.

it stemmed out this concern I had, I think we'll probably jump into later. But honestly, I've just really appreciated and really loved getting to dive deep into some of the areas that both interest and concern me. So that's a little bit about me.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 01:45

I love it. Okay, so I'm gonna dive deep if that's okay with you. We were just chatting before I pressed record, right? And it was interesting because you said that you had some thoughts on meaning and merit. And you started off by saying, I know I'm a young person, right? And don't have as much experience. And I was thinking,

Actually, you have so much experience with this because I think young people for a long time now, not just today's generation, but certainly when I also was in high school, there is a lot of pressure in certain environments. And I'm guessing like as one of them, or you're in high school, there's a lot of pressure that's placed on achievement and merit and accolades and names of places.

And it can really scare people, right? It can overwhelm people. And that pressure I see for many people, certainly not all kids and teens, right? There's certainly variety, but for a number of them, it really starts in middle school, high school, elementary school, hopefully not kindergarten, but I'd also say hopefully not elementary school, right? It's starting pretty young. So I think you have

a lot of experience and it's one of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you because I want to hear from you. What's driving you because you seem to have like a light that is just emanating from you. So teach us.

Saahil Mishra (: 03:18

Wow, I appreciate you saying that. Well, I think you're so spot on that, especially for my generation and made the generation above, the pressure put on younger and younger kids is what's so often fueling this mental health crisis, this loneliness that you see among young people more than any other generation before, which is so scary. It's actually why I do the work I do because it's such an epidemic of loneliness that we're experiencing right now.

So I appreciate you recognizing that, that's so real. In my life, I think I see two major things that have really helped me find meaning. And one of which has just been people. I love people. I love spending time with my friends and my family. And I think the connection I get to experience with people just energizes me. I'm such an extrovert. so the collaborative work that I've gotten to do in school and at Unwiring, in the research, on the tennis court, that really just

brings joy to my life. So the collaboration is so special. That's something that's often more difficult to find in today's world among teens. And then second, I think I've tried to search for the meaning first and then the merit has just been what it is. Right. And I don't think, and I preface, I am young and so I still kind of hold it true that I haven't found that much like of either. I think I've got a little bit more meaning. I don't think I've found that much merit yet.

But I think whatever I've gotten so far as an 18 year old senior in high school, I think has really just come from the search for meaning first and then the mayor has just come along however it has. The meaning has especially been through and wiring. Where do we find our collective heartbeat, right?

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 05:07

Okay, so can you tell us about unwiring? Like, take us from the start. What inspired you to do this? What is it? It's a nonprofit. We want to hear all the details.

Saahil Mishra (: 05:17

Totally. So I think unwiring is an example of where I've searched for meaning before searching for merit. And that's because it really stemmed out of this experience I had as an eighth grader during the pandemic. And I had this friend, let's call him Adrian, and we would quote unquote connect almost every day. I'd send him TikToks, we'd send snaps, we'd share, know, we'd text back and forth every single day throughout this pandemic.

And then nine months later, I vividly remember the day when I finally made the effort to say, hey, let's meet up in person. And I still remember I was sitting on the swings, side by side on the swings of my empty middle school. And I watched tears fall down his eyes. And only in that moment when we were together in person did he open up about the anxiety, the depression, ultimately the self-harm that he'd been experiencing all by himself.

And I had no clue, despite connecting with him every day. I realized in this moment that over social media, often we're connecting without feeling connected. And that's really what catalyzed this whole social media and wellbeing journey for me. And so after this pandemic, I went into high school, Lickwilmering High School Center around social justice. And so it opened my eyes to the power of the youth voice and how

A young person can drive change. And so I began learning a lot. And actually before even thinking about what would this nonprofit be, before I even knew the name of what this organization would come to be, I did a lot of learning. And this is where I searched for the meaning before doing anything else, which is I took an independent study class, which was a semester long course in my sophomore year of high school. Over that summer, before

taking that independent study. I compiled my own readings, my own podcasts, my own research papers, and I create a lot of discussion questions, like what I wanna think about will guide my learning. And then I found a mentor, this amazing Miss Henderson teacher, my high school former teacher, who would be in this journey with me and provide some guidance and keep me on track. And so I took this independent study and...

It genuinely fascinated me and I learned so much about social media and wellbeing, the inner workings, impacts, what solutions would I want to help young people find. Because now that I had this experiential learning, know, learning from the self, I had to learn from the shelves a little bit, like learn from others. And so once I kind of had both my own understanding myself and how I relate to the issue and then understand the issue and the statistics, not even...

founded the org, I thought about team building. Since then, I surrounded myself with 19 other passionate teens from across the Bay Area who were also really interested in driving change within social media. And then we started to lead our initiatives. So it was a long, long journey to get to the initiatives, but I think I found a lot of meaning in it.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 08:27

So quick story, because what you're saying really resonates with me. About over a decade ago, I had a Facebook account like most people at that time, at least my age did. And I remember there was one friend I had in particular that I was just following her updates. And we had been hanging out quite frequently. And then at some point, we weren't able to for whatever reason. I think we both just got

pretty busy in our lives. And I still saw her updates. And I saw that she got engaged, and I saw that she got married, and I saw that she was pregnant, and then I saw that she had a kid. And then I ran into her at a party, and I realized all of the major life events that I was so excited to have her tell me about for the first time, I already knew about from an up.

date on Facebook and I couldn't even hear it from her live for the first time. It was so deflating to me. I felt like it had taken away such possibility for connection. But I actually went and I just closed my Facebook account completely right after that. I have since reopened it for other reasons, but I was off of it for about a decade and I have really struggled with social media.

partly because of that. And I know that there's a lot of value and I think you've shared in the past that you're not saying, you know, throw the baby out with the bathwater, that it's about sort of responsible use. But I think when you're sharing your experience, I really resonate with, on one hand, it can keep us updated and connected. And on the other hand, there's something so important to connection that is lost, right? That is really important for us to not overlook. So I'm glad you're talking about that.

What is the nonprofit do?

Saahil Mishra (: 10:22

Thank you so much. Yeah, so we've had a handful of different initiatives that have evolved over time and kind of adapted to what teammates were really interested in. When I think about our work, I break it into two major categories. One of which is our work to educate teens about the impacts and inner workings of social media. And then second, we work to empower teens to drive change themselves within social media and really use their voice to have an impact. And so within the educate category,

We've made videos, we've hosted parent workshops, and then the event that was honestly most exciting and one of the highlights of our work was definitely hosting a youth summit. We brought together many of the world's leading researchers and activists on social media and wellbeing, like Professor Jeff Hancock, Dr. Megan Moreno, Aidan Cohn Murphy, Emma Lemke, like amazing teen activists, amazing researchers.

and we had the privilege of getting to put them all in one space and let them share their work in a very youth-centered way. so, Youth Summit was a highlight and getting to share their work with young people was really exciting. In the Empower section of our work, we really try to help young people use their voice to drive change. And one of the biggest initiatives there has been hosting a redesign challenge where we asked

over 7,500 schools around the US to submit ideas about what is a change you'd wish to see within social media. And so we had teens submitting from, I mean, I don't know how many states across the US and sharing, you know, this is what I want to see. I want to see the comment section change. I want to see data transparency in this way. I want to see, you know, screen time be adapted like this. I want to see that button be this color so it doesn't mess with our cognitive biases. I want it be that.

color, you know? Like, amazing ideas and then we got to share those ideas with folks on various teams at Meta. And so that's been one way we've tried to uplift the youth voice. that's a little bit of the work we do.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 12:28

so you are sharing them with teams at Meta.

Saahil Mishra (: 12:30

Yeah, we had the privilege of meeting with an amazing woman who's the director of public policy and then she connected us with the trust and safety team and so we're working on sharing these ideas and hopefully getting them implemented.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 12:45

See, I think these are great examples of tremendous merit, right? Awesome, yeah, and really driven by something meaningful to you. So, beautiful example.

Saahil Mishra (: 12:51

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 13:01

I was going to ask you something. If you're comfortable with this, you were saying you were asking all these different youth about their recommendations, what they'd like to see differently in social media. What would you like to see differently if you're different, if you're comfortable sharing it with

Saahil Mishra (: 13:17

I actually wanted to share some ideas that I had the privilege of sharing with the Biden-Harris Task Force on. Actually, I don't want to leak this yet. Harris, let's cut this out.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 13:26

...task for?

How

humble you are you're like, I don't have any merit I'm 18 and I have it so much. Oh, by the way, I'm advising

Saahil Mishra (: 13:38

Maybe I'll share this. I can share this. I can share this later because this is definitely a highlight, but I can build up to it. Let me just share some ideas I have and then maybe I'll get to that later. In particular, there are a few different like tools, settings, changes that I really wish could happen. And many of which have come from the redesign challenge. Many of which have just been generated in my own, like in my own mind as I've gone through the learning and the work. One major thing is I wish in terms of data transparency that

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 13:48

Okay.

Saahil Mishra (: 14:08

we can view our own model. I wish that I could log in to Instagram and see, oh yeah, they know that I'm an Indian boy who lives in California, who's interested in tennis, kind of on the shorter side. Like, I wish I could know these things and then see how they use my data to feed me content. And I think, especially when I realized, oh wow, they know my political leaning. Like, oh wow, they know certain things about me that, you know, maybe what if I wanted to tweet that? Like, I want to see what...

the opposite side of the political spectrum looks like. I wish that was an option. Another idea is the subscription model, which has had some critical but also positive thinking over time as to whether it would have a good impact. But this is basically the idea that what if we had fewer or no ads on social media and instead we had folks pay a small amount in order to fund the social media platforms.

And I think that could lead to us valuing the experience of being on social media far more than the time of being on social media. And then we can show all the top ranked videos first. Like you don't get flooded with somebody you like and some you don't like. It's just like quality content and then it slowly just becomes content that you see what you want to see and then you can get off instead of mixing up. You're diluting your experience so that you're just online and you get a nice video once every 10 and so you keep going, right? Like gambling almost.

So I wish subscription model data transparency. And then one final idea would be to verify identities online in the same way that we have a driver's license or a school ID. Like what if social media actually collected some of those? And this would require obviously a lot more work. This would not only be a platform change but also a governmental regulation. But if social media were to collect a driver's license or a school ID,

Then you could verify a user that they're real instead of just a spam account or an ad agency. And then the algorithm could heighten your engagement. Like you could actually receive more views if you are a verified person. So those are just a couple ideas. Subscription model, verifying your identity, data transparency, and of course improving the comment section. There are a bunch of others as well. Those are some that stand out to me as especially impactful.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 16:31

I imagine you may know and you may be able to correct the specifics around this or provide details around this, but my understanding is that Australia just passed a law where they want social media platforms to have the age minimum for participation in social media companies to be 16, right? And I'm curious about your thoughts on that.

Saahil Mishra (: 16:54

Yeah, I think this is such important work and I think Australia is doing a great job. think the Surgeon General, Vic Moorthy, has done an absolutely incredible job about, in particular, led our movement in the U.S. around youth mental health, loneliness, and in particular, he's pushed to have users be above 13 years old, which I think is such a caring idea. I think this is by far just such a powerful

decision in order to help a lot of young people. And naturally, there are going to be some young people that are younger than 16 and wish they could be online, which I think is inevitably the cost that we'll need a trade-off will need to make in order to support so many young people that would otherwise be at risk of struggling. I think it's a really good decision. There's also sometimes risk of taking young people off of social media that

could otherwise benefit in really substantial ways, like an LGBTQ teen in a rural state in the US. Maybe they don't have a lot of other folks that identify similar to them. So in certain cases like that, I do think there's the real power of being able to get online and connect with like-minded people. I think often social media can also harm folks with marginalized identities equally as much. So there's so much nuance to it. But overall, I really appreciate the love and care that are

folks in power are really starting to take on when it comes to social media and well-being.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 18:26

Given this nuance, which I'm really glad that you're speaking to, what would you recommend to teens? I'm sure that, I mean, you're trying to get other people's advice as well, other teens. What thoughts do you have for responsible youth?

Saahil Mishra (: 18:42

I think a lot of strategies for young people stem out of screen time. That being like using usage tools to limit your time online. I do think often screen time is a symptom of a much deeper issue where your identities, your lived experiences, there are a lot of other factors that can impact your experience online far more than your screen time. I do think that if we can refocus as young people, as parents,

to thinking more about the behaviors of teens, experiences of teens, and then how we're all role modeling both online and offline. I think those are some strategies that parents can use. And in terms of young people, I think above all, it's prioritizing in-person connection. And it's finding time to be on those swings with the people you care about. I think that's honestly the most powerful way to...

have a healthy relationship with social media because the moment you don't rely on social media for the bulk of your connection, then you're just gonna use social media for the little bits of cherry on top that you want it for. So I think the moment you have the foundation of connection, that's really powerful. Otherwise, I also recommend thinking about your privacy and safety. That's always really important, especially for young women online. Like that's a whole different conversation, but that's really important. And then finally,

Thinking about time limits, if that's something you really need in order to balance your time. We never really recommend banning social media unless if, you know, very extreme circumstances, but usually we think there really is a way to coexist in a healthy way with the platforms and teens are some powerful people, like they can balance it themselves. And I'll preface it all by saying that we really need social media to change because...

It's not young people that are addicted, it's social media that is addicting young people. Like young people really are on the opposite side of social media's impact. And so we believe that when there are so many trillions of dollars going into companies that creating these tools specifically to addicting young people, there really is only so much a young person can do. And so that's why we recommend that teens do not only educate themselves, also

We want to empower young people to drive change because that's a sustainable way to have a healthier relationship with the platform.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 21:04

Well, do you encourage them to limit their time?

Saahil Mishra (: 21:08

their message.

Typically with unwiring, we actually don't focus that much on limiting time online because we really believe that we can build a healthier relationship and coexist with social media. And yes, limiting time online is often helpful in order to escape the cycle of social media use and feeling harmed by social media. We really can give teens the agency to use social media, but in amounts that they believe is healthy.

And know, teens don't want to feel addicted to social media, right? That's like, teens know when they're struggling a lot more. And so we believe that banning social media is really the strategy instead of finding a way to help we coexist with it is a lot more feasible and especially in the long term.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 21:55

That's really interesting.

I have had, I've known some teens that have just cut it out cold turkey for a period of time and found tremendous benefit on their, in their depression or their mood rather, their anxiety. And then from that place, they re-engage and they find that they're able to develop a healthier relationship, so to speak, with social media. Do you have any thoughts on that? I mean, obviously.

it's their experience and it's helpful. But have you seen that as a pattern to be helpful or it really varies?

Saahil Mishra (: 22:28

I think it really varies and I often I think it actually can be really helpful. I speak to the co-director that I have the privilege of coding on wiring with. He has never like used a social media platform in his life and I think that is such a different experience than one that I had especially during the pandemic. But honestly he has a really healthy relationship with himself, with technology. And so I think when you do just cut social media out of your life

There is a period of time where you experience a lot of FOMO, like you wonder what you're missing out on. But he often speaks to the experience that throughout Frosh year, sophomore year, junior year in high school, he really just found a way to stay in touch with folks in person in a very deep way, deeper than, I mean, definitely what I experienced during that pandemic. And so there's absolutely a way that you can be offline, but still stay in the know.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 23:25

That's great. This is so useful, think, because, you know, understanding the nuance and trying to figure out how to develop that healthy relationship is what everyone's trying to figure out, because sometimes it's compelling to say, you know, just don't use it at all, get off of it entirely. And for some people that works. And then for others, there are ways of developing a different relationship, even without necessarily curbing your usage, which is just...

a really interesting way of looking at it. And you said that you are speaking very often to parents and giving recommendations, and you talked about usage, any other recommendations to parents?

Saahil Mishra (: 24:05

Mm, yeah. To parents, we, in our workshops, we often talk about five different strategies. And I can briefly talk about each one. The first one is to help your teen understand the ecosystem. And this is also a strategy for teens directly. But to help your family understand what the business model looks like, what is the current research that exists, understand even your own family identity.

deling. That a survey back in: 2014

Teens are often struggling with phones, but so are the parents. And then that makes teens feel so, you know, like their parents don't always hear them. And so that's one place where we think parents, they model both online and offline, then that can really help teens learn from a generation, especially older generations that really know what in-person connection looks like. The third strategy is to have the social media and wellbeing conversation with your kid. We have a set of questions, but in general, helping your teen understand

Where are they deriving benefits and where are they feeling the harms and helping them do their own self-reflection in order to make their own like agentic decisions. And then finally, to let the tech help you. That there are a lot of usage tools that can help a teen. And that being said, use usage tools as a starting point to gauge whether you're shifting the habits. But ultimately try to focus on, as Dr. Moreno says, the teens not the screens, which I love. So focus on the behaviors, experiences, the role modeling.

but use screen time as a tool to begin gauging whether you're shifting your house.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 26:02

That's great. Very useful. Okay, so you're offering these workshops regularly as part through unwiring.

Saahil Mishra (: 26:09

Yeah.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 26:10

Awesome! How can parents find out more and attend?

Saahil Mishra (: 26:14

Well, we'd love to speak at your high school. We've been doing workshops around the Bay Area, middle school, K through eights, or high schools. And so we'd love to join you. So if you want to connect, please reach out to us at nwaring.org. But yeah, we'd love to share these strategies in full and connect with parents. So, yeah.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 26:33

Great. This is awesome. So taking a step back from the specific unwiring work that you're doing, I hear, again, I'm just going to say a tremendous amount that you have accomplished, right? You're very humble about it, but it's sort of right and left, like we'll add to the list. You're giving workshops and lectures throughout the Bay to parents, right? I know you've had

a TEDx talk at your school. You have worked at the Stanford Social Media Lab. You've done a ton of things. And I keep hearing from you, none of the accolades and accomplishments are what's guiding you. It's really this passion that you have. And I'm wondering what specifically, like we could talk about meaning in sort of a broad way, but a lot of people feel inspired.

and they can't necessarily accomplish a lot, right? And so I'm wondering what specific elements, traits, know, experiences you've had that have kind of coupled with that meaning to help propel you forward to do so much with the meaning that is driving you.

Saahil Mishra (: 27:45

You're way too kind. I appreciate your kind words. I think what's helped me find my way through this work has been the nature of it being very collaborative. Like the best decision I ever made was making Unwiring a co-directed organization and building this team that I could work alongside, which I think a lot of youth don't always get to do and a lot of youth nonprofits don't do.

That's just, that's changed the nature of how much we could get done together. You know, you can go faster a little bit further together. And then a lot of things I've done have been in alignment with each other. All of my activities in life kind of are centered around connection and community. When I think about the research I do about misinformation in the global South, like that's understanding how social media is impacting different communities. Unwiring the work we do is to uplift communities and help teens feel more connected.

even on the tennis court, right? That's connection. Everything I kind of do is centered around connection in one way or another. And so that alignment helps me be in the same mind space, no matter what specific project I'm working on. So that's something of privilege I have. And then finally, I think it's really helpful to find this intersection between a topic that you think is important, a talent that you have, and something that you enjoy.

And the moment all three of those things intermingle and they coexist together, that you're kind of good at something and you really love doing it, and it centers around some social issue or passion that really needs attention in today's world, then I feel like you're kind of destined to love the process and find a little bit of merit along with the meanings. Okay.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 29:34

Those three things, I want to just go back because I know you said talent, things that you enjoy. the first one that I'm now saying third is there's a need around you with the third one in today's world. So how did you describe it? I think you said three words or something like that, three phases. What were they?

Saahil Mishra (: 29:56

Yes, those three phases I really see as being the need or rather the issue. Did you find a social justice issue or a social issue that is really important and just needs people to help out? And social media and well-being has absolutely been an issue that has gained even more need and attention as our work has gone on. So that's the issue. Talent is kind of, do you have a little bit of a

a knack for doing something. Like for me, I've never been the expert. And that's why I took the event study to try to gain a little bit more knowledge. And so my, I don't know talent, but my slight knack for something has been bringing people together and building this team and helping us collectively lead initiatives. And so without being an expert, I've gotten to be in some spaces where I've gotten to share some knowledge. So that's been really special.

And then finally, the last category is do you enjoy what you do? And I love what I do. And I love the team and I love, I love getting to see the smiles on parents and teens' faces. I love getting to find a fascinating correlation between misinformation and a certain community like that, hugs some of our strings and interests me at the same time, which is really important. So if you find an issue that you have a little talent for, that you enjoy thinking about and we're doing work on.

I think you're destined to have some impact.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 31:27

Sahil, this is gold.

Gold, I'm telling you. There's a need or an issue. You've got some talent there and you really enjoy doing it. And the for success. I love it. So do you have any advice for other teens beyond social media use, but in terms of balancing all the pressures and the work with the meaning and purpose?

Saahil Mishra (: 31:38

Absolutely.

There you go.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 31:57

in addition to the three things that you just said, which again is gold.

Saahil Mishra (: 32:01

So I'm so extroverted and so I love, I just love to be with people. I could never do, you know, I do so much of my homework on FaceTime calls and all of our wiring's around Zoom meetings and in-person stuff. So I'm always doing this work with people and that helps me stay motivated. And then the alignment I think is really important. The work you're doing, if you're doing research in a biology field, but then you're also diving deep into a

whatever, very like an English literature text. I don't know. Interdisciplinary work is so powerful. And when you can, especially with extracurricular activities, find some connection between them such that I'm not doing research on a humanities thing and then my nonprofit's about a super STEM thing. Then all of sudden my mind is in two different places in the same day. And so I've had the fortune of learning

about the same topics, if that makes sense. Like reading the research papers about social media and well-being and then trying to drive impact within social media and well-being, it helps me stay sane.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 33:11

Totally. And in addition to aligning the topic, it also sounds like you align with your values in whatever you're doing. So you mentioned connection, whether you're talking about or thinking about social media use or on the tennis sport, right? You were saying tennis, it's again about connection. These things that are important to you, your values, the things that bring you meaning, always being in touch with them and maybe even having

them kind of drive what you're doing so that there's this alignment throughout your life because they're all connected to your values. Teamwork, collaboration, these are themes that it sounds like are just showing up throughout your life. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. I want to flip it around a little bit because I ask all of my guests on the show if they have any recommendations for teens. This time, I know I just asked you that, but I'm wondering if you as a teen,

Saahil Mishra (: 33:51

Yeah.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 34:07

have any recommendations for

Saahil Mishra (: 34:09

so of

Wow,

I don't know how much adults want to hear from me. I think, I feel like adults know meaning better than teens by a lot. But let me try to think about something that they'll care to hear. I think so many adults do this so well and I want to be that adult that continues to do this. But finding that forever spark in your life. Like I think about my grandfather and he's over 89. I haven't really kept track of his age. But he is like the most

passionate person I know. Like he genuinely switched career fields in the last decade. Like literally 70, like 65 years old and he is like, you know what? I want to work on a whole new thing that I've ever done in my career. And his learning curve has been extraordinary. And he just has this joy for living life because he continues to have impact. He continues to find purpose. And so I think when you just

keep finding that new spark and you don't let that fire burn out, then you can continue to experience the exciting learning curve that you feel so much meaning from as a young person. I imagine it's really tough to leave something that you're so familiar with, and it might even be tougher sometimes to stay forever in something you're familiar with.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 35:34

Keep the spark and keep finding the spark. I liked that because the spark, you know, might get old after a while, but being open, I'm guessing to finding a new one. And how we do that, perhaps you'll come back when you're 80 something if this show is still running. I don't know. Anyway, we'll just pretend. I tell us how we do that. But do you have any thoughts like how have you kept the spark going through high school, let's say?

Saahil Mishra (: 36:02

I think I felt the spark because my learning curve through high school has just brought so much joy to my life. Like research, for example. Every single day that I'm doing research, whether it's like data collection, coming up with questions, reading different research papers to inform my introduction section, right? There's so much learning that's always happening. I learned how to...

code in this new software. learned how to read a dense research paper. learned how mean, that's less fun, would say. I learned how to find an interesting correlation on a data set that actually matters, right? Like I've just learned so much and that has definitely kept me on my toes and it kept me interested in doing more.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 36:48

Yeah. And what I'm wondering, again, I'm already excited with the hopes that I'm going to have you back on the show if we're still running in like five, 10 years. See what you're up to and see if you've got any similar thoughts, if they've changed. But I kind of go back to the three things you said. Talent. Well, first, is there a need and an issue? Do you have some talent there? And enjoyment, right? And again, aligning that alignment in the topic, aligning with the values.

I haven't interviewed your grandfather. I'm sure that would be really interesting to hear from him. But if you keep doing those things and maybe stay open and keep the open to opportunities, right? And keep kind of meeting new people and learning like you're saying, that might help you tap into where you're finding the spark, right? And the one piece that you haven't said, but I'm sure it's there is

something related to not letting fear stop you or not letting self judgment stop you or something like being open to not knowing something and still diving in, right? Making mistakes and still going after it. Is there anything like that that shows up for you?

Saahil Mishra (: 38:04

I think he said it so perfectly. Yeah, I think I've I mean I've had my own fair share of fails, right? Like some of the first initiatives on wiring we made videos at first and those were not good. Like they were definitely projects where we're looking back and we're like, you know what? Maybe we're gonna stop making that many videos and then we're gonna shift more to other initiatives. Like that just happens and you only really know that videos don't work when you make videos and then you...

and then you start to go in a different direction. Snap!

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 38:36

Hold on, powerful. You only know it doesn't work when you do it. Yeah. So you can't think your way into not making mistakes and doing it the like quote unquote right way.

Saahil Mishra (: 38:50

Yeah, I mean, so often as humans, we want to intellectualize our lives. Like we want to think about, that going to work? Is that not going to work? But especially as a kid, I just don't know the world well enough to make an accurate prediction. So I've just started to, you know, let's just write up that section. Let's just like hit that shot. Let's just lead that initiative and whatever happens happens. But the journey is almost always pretty joyful, even if it doesn't work.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 39:17

Words of wisdom from Sahil Mishra. Thank you so much for joining us. I cannot wait to invite you on the show. I hope we're still going. I'm really excited to hear where you land over the next few years, what you're up to, if you continue to have a spark for social media use and you stay in this field and what comes of it. I'm just so excited for you and so grateful that you took the time.

to spend with us to share your knowledge, your wisdom, your inspiration, your passion. I'm just feeding off of it. So thank you all around.

Saahil Mishra (: 39:56

Thank you so much. It's been such a joy to talk with you.

Dr. Maria-Christina Stewart (: 40:03

Thank you very much for listening to this episode of Meaning vs. Merit. If you liked the episode or think it would be helpful for someone else, please leave a review of it on your podcast listening app, such as Apple Podcasts. You can scroll all the way to the bottom of the page, to the rating and reviews section, and leave a review there. Or you can review it at podchaser.com. If you have any questions that you want me to discuss on this show, let me know on Instagram at Dr. Maria Christina.

Until next time, I'm going to encourage you to think about our two &Ms, meaning and merit, and see what happens when we embrace meaning first and allow merit to follow. See you next time.